I went to see the film Dark Knight four times this summer, and yes, I even took notes. I’m not ashamed of that. If you have not seen it, I suggest you check it out because not only is it entertaining, but it is philosophical and psychological. The History Channel even aired a program entitled Batman Unmasked: The Psychology of the Dark Knight. Immediately after seeing the film for the first time I got chills and couldn’t get the film out of my mind. Every time I go see it again I notice things I never noticed before. As a result, I decided to post my thoughts about the film for your responses. Throughout the year I will point out topics in Psychology that are present in this film and other films.
In the comic book The Killing Joke, the Joker tells Batman: “All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That’s how far the world is from where I am: just one bad day. You had a bad day once, am I right? I know I am. I can tell. You had a bad day and everything changed—why else would you dress up like a flying rat? You had a bad day, and it drove you as crazy as everybody else…only you won’t admit it! You have to keep pretending that life makes sense; that there’s some point to all this struggling!”
In psychological terms it makes us wonder, how do individuals respond to traumatic events? What causes individuals to respond in the form of the Joker, a psychotic criminal, as opposed to Batman, a heroic vigilante?
In true scientific and psychological form, Joker must test his hypothesis, and he does so on Harvey Dent aka Two-Face. The “White Knight”, most law-abiding citizen in
Bruce Wayne (Batman) has personal issues, which is why he is Batman. He is human, not a superhero. He has absolutely no superpowers except for unrelenting determination, constantly pushing the limits. The Joker is an “agent of chaos” as he says, while Harvey Dent aka Two-Face is the existence of “chance.” This is life…this is the scientific study of behavior and mental processes. We’re not talking about Superman who has to stay away from Kryptonite or any other superhero born on another planet. We are talking about a man who witnessed the tragic murder of his parents, was determined to overcome his fears (including that of bats), and now is an evening vigilante fighting crime by taking justice into his own hands. Bruce Wayne is a billionaire, highly intelligent, and again…has no special powers. The reality is, any one of us could have been Batman.
Even his nemesis Joker is merely human with no special powers, though with psychological issues like every other character in the film. Determination and motivation linger throughout the film. From the very beginning Alfred pleads with Bruce Wayne to “Know your limits,” to which Bruce Wayne responds, “Batman has no limits.” Alfred follows stating, “But you do.” So the question throughout the film is, how far will Batman go to stop the maniacal Joker? Remember, Batman vowed to never use guns or to kill.
The Joker destroys all social values and every notion of morality and he creates his own, based on his own vision of chaos. He doesn’t want money. He doesn’t want fame. He just wants to show his own perception of chaos to the world. As he says, “It’s not about the money, it’s about sending a message.” This just may be his only source of pleasure, judging from how much he truly enjoys this process. He is the “agent of chaos” who despises order, yet there is a sense of order in chaos (higher order; See: Chaos Theory).
Joker even says, “This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets the immovable object.” Which one is he? Why doesn’t Batman kill the psychopath Joker? Is it because of his respect for law and morality? Perhaps it is because they give each other purpose in life.
Reality is you can see almost anything in an allegorical context. It all comes down to perception and observation.
What are your thoughts?
21 comments:
Batman and Joker are indeed two victims of traumatic events. How they deal with their traumatic events however, are different. I believe that this difference in their individual actions are affected by a principle of the chaos theory (better known as the butterfly effect).
The chaos theory describes the behavior of certain dynamical systems (systems whose state evolve with time) that may exhibit dynamics that are highly sensitive to initial conditions.
- Wikipedia.org
Using this principle as basis for speculation, I believe that the difference in Joker and Batman's behavior is affected by the difference in the initial conditions of their current mentalities.
As was said in this blog, Batman's current mentality was triggered by the murder of his parents and the following thought pattern that he had. The will to become stronger, to overcome his fears, and the will to protect the innocent forged the more heroic psyche that batman bears to date.
I don't know much or anything about Batman nor the Joker oand Two face, however from what i've read they are no different from the people they are tryin to save or destroy.
I believe that Batman's experience of witnessing the death of his parents was tramatic mainly because he could not do anything.
This probably hurt him and made him want to save other people or mostly parents from being murdered.
On the other hand, what Joker experience was probably something to have to do with order. Causing him to be rebelious to it or probably drove him crazy.
well that's all i can think of until next time........
I do and always agree with anyone who says that two face, batman, and the joker are all equally traumtized people. No matter the age. I mean batman has the parents dying in front of him, the joker has the reason for his permanent smile, and two face has his love dying, and half his face is gone. However, the route they choose to faollow is quite different.
The joker hasn't exactly been taught what not to do in terms of right and wrong. He just wants to express his idea of chaos and get it through the minds of those of Gotham-his way. Two face is basically a revenge seeker who, in the process, robs a few banks who gave up on justice.
Batman, however, decided to go down the other path, not to give back to the community, but to do something for it, seeing has how there are other criminals just as stupid as the one who killed his parents, who do worse to more helpless people. Theres more to batman. I just don't have it all.
Let knock this thing down. Im going to answer the question posted. One i think joker is the unstoppable force i see him as like an constant force that will always be there even with unmovable object get moves i feel this way because i think there will come a villian before there is a hero........then i believe that the reason batman didn't kill joker is because he didn't want joker to have the satisfaction of being right that everyone even him could be the joker.........but at the same time i believe he needs the joker maybe to keep himself in check, I mean he killed harvey and also ray algoul so why not joker i think there is alot more to batman then a dramatized man that wants to protect everybody.
I believe that people respond to tramatic events in many different ways. I really don't know alot about Batman, Joker, or Two-Face but i know a little bit and also from what i've read they seem to have a great deal in common with one another with only minor differences which is what they choose to do in result of their tramatic events.
Batman chooses to save lives and inflict justice on the bad guys because he couldn't save the lives of his parents and he couldn't bring justice to the people that killed them.
Two-Face chooses to get revenge because of the death of the love of his life. After this tramatic event he becomes the existence of chance. i believe that he chooses to become this existence of chance because thats what ultimately killed the girl. what i mean is that their lives were left to chance.
Joker's story is more difficult to understand because no one really knows the reason for his permanent smile. i believe that his childhood must have been filled with much chaos for him to want everyone to suffer the way he must have suffered.
I believe that the unstoppable force is the Joker because he keeps comming back to inflict chaos constantly and i believe that the immovable object is Batman because no matter what happens he stays in gotham city and fights for the people.
I believe that Batman doesn't kill the Joker because deep down inside of him he knows that what he is saying is really true. I believe that they are destined to coexist with one another because without the Joker's evil Batman will go from powerful to powerless in the eyes of his society and himself. Good cannot and will not exist without evil and vice versa.
I believe that Batman and Joker made themselves who they are and just seen that they fit together, at least the Joker saw it. They both have a dark history but Joker's history changes almost THREE TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Though we may not know what happened to him we know what happened to him changed him, as well as Batman. Joker must have had a mentor in which betrayed him. Statistics do show that if you were abused as a child you will become a child abuser. Batman also became what made him. A criminal took his parents life and at the end of the movie he even considered himself a criminal.
These are facts people need to pay attention to. They are both criminals in accordence to their beings.
I probably won't get a chance to go see The Dark Knight (life is tough) so I'll just have to go by what I've read in the posts here. I'm not to sure what I think about it all. I just view Batman as the good guy and the others (however many there are...I'm completely oblivious) as the bad guys. True, they've all been through some traumatic things: "...batman has the parents dying in front of him, the joker has the reason for his permanent smile, and two face has his love dying, and half his face is gone." (Jean G.). However, I do find it intresting in the way these events have affected them all. Why did Wayne choose to live a double life, overcome his fears, and become a savior. With his wealth he could have easily become corrupted and cruel. Stealing would be easy for him and he could buy himself out of any situation. Yet, he chooses the tough path. One where he is constantly battling and risking his life for a city unaware of who he truly is. Why didn't the Joker choose the same path? Instead of creating chaos why doesn't he try to create order?
What would it be like if the two switched roles? What if Batman were the bad guy and the Joker the good guy? How would Gotham City be then?
I have seen the movie dark knight and was real... The joker was saying things that actually made you think twice about sometimes three. Both the joker nad batman was traumatized, at what ever time in their life. With batman he was traumatized by witnessing his parents die, which probably have motivated him to become the so call "HERO". As the jioker said he know that batman had a bad day which can cause people to do lunest things. Instead of taking the anger batman has he use it to benefit citizens of gotham city.
However, the joker is quite different. He was truamatized but by a different way. the joker changed his stories about 4 times how he received his permenent smile. When he was small i can say that he wasn'n taught from right to wrong. he has wonderful theories but in someway they are a bit chaotic. The joker traumatic situation caused him to be a rebel.
I believe that batman and joker need each other to survive. Without the existence one what's da piont the other being there.
Batman and The Joker are two different yet quite similar people. Of course we already know that Batman is the hero and The Joker is the villian. However, the story of the 2 is more elaborate. I do believe that Batman and The Joker give each other a purpose. The Joker makes Batman look at himself not as just Batman but as Bruce Wayne. The Joker forces Batman to see reality in a new light and is trying to make him see that morals and values may cause you your life or the life of your loved ones.
I believe that the traumatic experience that the 2 have occured make them who they are and what they stand for and believe in. Personally, I don't believe that The Joker is really a bad guy he just sends a message to people in a way that causes crime and chaos.
Ok first, why is Emmanuel's comments always first?
Second, I don't think the Batman and Joker and Two-face are much different. As previously stated in everyone's comments, something traumatic has happened to all three of them to push them over the edge. The quote I liked that Harvey said in the movie as we all know was "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." To me, I think that quote applies to Batman more than anyone else in the movie. Not because he's perceived as the "Hero," but because of what Joker said to him in the interogation room. Joker said "They're (the police) just using you right now, but as soon as they don't need you, they're going to turn on you." Batman new that and he got mad at Joker in the interogation room and preceeded to man-handle Joker. That's also why Batman doesn't kill the Joker, the Joker always tell Batman the truth and the truth ends up being something Batman can relate to, even though Joker doesn't know who Batman really is and his past history. If you watched the movie you can see that batman gets so heated at times that he would nearly killed the "bad guys," but he doesn't because to the rest of Gotham City he would just be even more on the category as the other criminals (Gotham City already thinks he's a criminal) by adding on murder to his list. Also the Joker told Batman "Noone seems to panick when things go according to plan, but when something goes wrong, everyone panicks," as obvious as that sounds he's absolutely correct. That's where Batman had to realize he has limits. The Police where never his friend, they were just getting a free ride because the criminals Batman caught, they could'nt have done it themselves. Now they're after him.
With Joker I don't know what pushed him over the edge but, he really convinced me the first time he told the story of how he got the scars, but it turns out he was just lying. I also still don't understand why in the world did Batman go after Harvey instead of that other white chick when he had the choice. In conclusion, I see Joker as the good guy but just going about it in the wrong way, he doesn't have to kill people, but he does it anyways to prove a point. This is very similar to that movie "Live Free or Die Hard 4.0," all of these "bad guys" are just trying to prove a point but just going about it the wrong way.
I was going to watch the dark knight at home on bootleg,(my bootleg man got the clearest dvds), but i fell asleep, and by falling asleep i therefore thought this movie isn't worth my time. Anyway, plainly, the traumatic events both batman and joker (hero and villian) went through gave purpose to each other, because every hero needs a villian to stop and every villian needs a hero to attempt to stop him. And if it wasn't like that this world would be even more messed up than it is.
BLEAM!!!!
I have never seen the actual film,but my friend informed about it. I realized that Batman and Joker as a dysfuntional relationship. The Joker can be called a psycho.
I believe in this thought. Everyone has a purpose on Earth, and in my case, everyone that I have come in contact with has affected my life in one way or another, even if it was some minimal. You can go ahead and call Joker the most crazed thing in the world, but maybe he does serve a certain purpose. Maybe his "message" is meant to, and will get to someone in a way.
Each person has their conflicts, drug dealers, hot movie stars, whoever. It is up to them, however, to make the best of it and find meaning behind it all.
well even though i call myself batman i have never really took time to watch any of his movies..lol..but from wat people have told me batman and the joker play to totally different roles..and the joker is a bit crazy...
well joker is the immoveable force becuz he never die or leave in batman... batman is the unstopable becuz he alwayz end up victorious at the end... and i think batman iz tooo nice i wouldve killed joker... but ay batmans such a nice guy.
i agree with steve O totaly and i think that the joker is the best villian ever period.
I have not seen the film yet but I believe that batman really have respect for the joker even if joker is a psycho.
i never actually seen dark knight... but people who did seen it told me that is way the best batman movies ever.. And you Ms valdez told us that is connect a lot with psychology because alot of the joker behavior was complex.
I think the reason batman didn`t kill the joker because he is a good guy and if he were to kill joker than that would go against what he belives in.
I believe that Batman and Joker made themselves who they are and just seen that they fit together, at least the Joker saw it. They both have a dark history but Joker's history changes almost THREE TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Though we may not know what happened to him we know what happened to him changed him, as well as Batman. Joker must have had a mentor in which betrayed him. Statistics do show that if you were abused as a child you will become a child abuser. Batman also became what made him. A criminal took his parents life and at the end of the movie he even considered himself a criminal.
These are facts people need to pay attention to. They are both criminals in accordence to their beings.
(pinkpanther queen)
I saw the film this summer as well and let me tell you, it blew me away!!! Not from the action sequences, but the events that led up to them. I loved the way the film constantly played with the viewer's mind, causing them to think deeply about each individual character separately and their chemistry with one another, oftentimes placing themselves and what we call reality into the picture asking questions like: "Is this how we as people actually are in the mind or is it just smoke and mirrors?" This was by far the best movie of 2008 and perhaps the greatest Comic Book hero film of all time! Indeed, the film does go deeper than any other superhero film and makes them look like child's play, but the overall purpose of the film was not to just show Batman playing tag with the Joker, but to show how people can portray themselves as someone who believes in something to the highest degree can change without warning, and share an attraction with someone who is the total opposite until there is no point of distinction or force that distances them. Basically, the message I got from the film was the quote: "With choice, not decision, comes fate, not destiny."
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